How To Make Friends & Alienate People
For those of you who have better things to do than spend all day Twittering, allow me to fill you in on the recent debate that has been raging on the micro blogging site.
In a nutshell, we have pretty much received a slating from many of the copywriters we had the sheer audacity to invite to join us. Their argument, that we are undermining them by charging much less than they do is understandable, if not exactly impartial.
So in the interests of a fair and open approach we’ve decided to lift the lid on this and let people make up their own minds. Thanks to Andrew Nattan at Unmemorable Title who has done a pretty good job of collating all of the arguments. You can read this here.
The Twitterings have ranged from the good:
EpigramCopy @copify “Nice website folks. Good look and a good service.”
The bad:
Copymonkeybiz @ Copify “me and I earned 14 quid today for something I thought was rather good.” (No? Me either.)
And the just plain ugly…
judycopywriter:@copify @Mr603 @NoSloppyCopy I can type ’sh*t’ 500 times in an hour. Does this make me a pro? (‘Bloodsuckers’ takes a little longer). 5:21 PM Feb 4th*
And this from the so-called professionals.** Make of that what you will…
Follow us @ http://www.twitter.com/copify.
Martin
*Please note, this is the original tweet, EXACTLY how it appeared on the site, as referenced here. Apologies for any confusion caused.
**The following sentence has been removed from the last paragraph. “who for all of their experience don’t have one blue chip, or even a remotely recognised client to show between them. Only a few poorly constructed websites and a lot of time on their hands.”
We accept that this was unfair and unfounded and apologise for any offence caused.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Personally I’d have left it at your last blog Martin. No need to enter into a slanging match with anyone. Fact is your business plan and your offering irked a few people in the writing profession and to me that would maybe raise a few alarm bells, rather than encourage me to write blogs that single out and damn individuals who dared to take an alternative view to your own. Just a thought. I don’t have a problem with people doing work for tuppence a word, even though I think it struggles to pay minimum wage, but your suggestion that yours is a new way of doing things that is going to revolutionise the copywriting business and why should anyone pay 4 times as much when they can get the same job from you much cheaper and to the same high standards is what has aggravated some people, myself included. You have changed your stance several times in as many days, but I think we know where you stand now. Good luck.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Alasdair, It’s never been our intention to enter into a slanging match with anyone, we’re just putting our side of the story across, surely that’s only fair?
The dialogue as we see it has gone something like this:
Copify > Copywriters: – “Would you like to join our site?”
Copywriters > Copify: (Indignant) “No, I earn £xxx* a day, why would I want to work for you?”
Copify > Copywriters: “Really? Your website looks like a dog’s breakfast and you haven’t got any clients I’ve heard of but fair enough. Sorry to bother you, all the best.”
Copywriters > Copywriters: “Have you heard about Copify, outrageous isn’t it? I’m going to blog and Twitter about it and give them what for!”
Copywriters > Copify: General abuse
Copify > World: “Here’s what’s been said, here’s our take on it.”
*No figures actually disclosed
February 11th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Please. If you are going to use me as an example of someone who hasn’t a blue chip or recognisable name to his credit I suggest you look at my client list first.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Well, looks like this is going to run and run. Wouldn’t it have been better to throw water on the fire instead of petrol?
Thanks for the link by the way.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
This is not the first time that you have alluded to the clients of the copywriters who have questioned your business model. I find it very peculiar. Do you believe that a copywriter must work for a big business before they can comment on your business? Or do you believe that only copywriters with big brand experience are good?
Either way, it’s a funny way to argue your case. It’s as though you’re saying “yes our business is founded upon rotten foundations but it’s okay because I don’t recognise your clients.”
Please explain how a copywriter’s clients relate to the discussion about your rates and your business model.
Also, I think it’s a shame that you’ve responded to criticism in this way. I hope you change your approach to public relations soon, before Copify is beyond repair.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Just to reiterate its not just copywriters who have a view at BlueSky – a PR agency we provide extensive copywriting services to our clients – having looked at some of your so called briefs I am astounded. A 400 word article on hair extensions – no mention of the type of media or the audience – so how is the writer supposed to know how to pitch it.?
You may think that this is just a commodity but copywriting is a skill and a craft and what your pricing system fails to take into account is that often it is much much harder to write a small succinct peice of copy than it is to write a long one.
I think your jibe about blue chip clients is absurd. I own a successful agency which tuns over a signifcant six figure sum and is highly profitable – all my clients are happy – none are in the FTSE100 – so what? And to use your ’shopping around’ analogy I wouldnt let someone service my car at a knock down rate just becuase they said they could.
It’s your business model so do with it what you will but lets not beat about the bush. The end user client isnt getting cheap copy – the middle man is – your ‘users’ are mainly agencies who get a cheap job done and then charge their normal rate to the client. The client is just getting conned. I think that just shows a complete lack of integrity.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
@ Martin – I take my hat off to you, some of your clients are impressive. (You are, however, in the minority)
@ Andrew – Thank you for taking an interest in the debate and gathering all of information.
@ Leif – Not quite sure what you mean by ‘alluded to the clients.’ Genuinely, the only client feedback I have on the site has been positive. I will back this up with a blog post shortly. With regards to the brand issue, in my experience the more credible copywriters will have worked with bigger brands, you can’t really dispute that. We’re not saying that those copywriters who have worked with SMEs aren’t entitled to an opinion, just that they are less credible than those who have the portfolio to back up a decent level of experience. Concerning our public relations, we are more concerned with keeping our clients happy, rather than our competitors. We are entitled to have an opinion and entitled to express that.
@Tracey – we guide our clients as much as possible in creating a detailed brief and, as we have stated many times, place a heavy emphasis on the importance of this. But we can’t force them to do so. Again on the issue of brand experience, can you honestly tell me that you would consider a copywriter with blue chip experience on a par with someone who has worked with only small local businesses? We have never stated that copy is a commodity and with regards to people getting conned, where is the evidence for this? Again this is based on assumption and not fact.
@Judy – We apologise for any offence caused to you personally. We acknowledge that you do indeed have a number of high profile clients and you are more than welcome to post further details of these.
February 12th, 2010 at 9:30 am
I would advise you not to ignore my email. Unless you think Scottish Widows, Royal Bank and De Vere are small local businesses.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
As far as I am concerned this website has opened up another avenue of revenue for myself (and everyone else on here moaning like little girls).
Good job guys, I hope this is a success and my only advice is to stick it out and take the abuse.
Yes you have undercut the “competition”, but ho-hum, thats business.
Pat on the back.
Piers.